Gramps, lies and videotape (c timehack)

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[Music] nothing wrong with the old man cheers salute salute cheers and to you Annie picture here briefly everything briefly two sh God there’s absolutely no respect okay first thing we wanted to know is how far back is the family recorded history this concern it goes back to about all well into the 1700s and as far as the Irish are concerned I don’t know because most records and lost uh during the oh the early 7 17 religion was for years and ped they they didn’t get married my great grands were married they going to

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church so they made a record there but it got lost I tried to find it when I got into T and no but the records are gone but I do have complete almost complete records since they had primogenitor and only the earliest one got anything the soup so at 15 why with no education not a single word of English with basically no training or education of any kind while he uh skipped away from home and went to Friberg and joined the party of immigrants Who coming to America and they came as several had before to

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Rochester where an earlier glov not related had moved in got settled and so all the rest of the glyos from Germany whether they were related or not would go to Rochester he would put them up stake them get them aim it so that they knew what it was like over here and then they would fan out across the country and so here my 15-year-old grandfather went from Rochester down to iron on the Ohio River because it looked very much like the Ry and uh so he I don’t know I’ve never been able to hear what his

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story was as far as getting established but there were little Villages all along there from people from the same area and he married a girl in iron that was from a village 3 miles away from Fon where the family lived and uh eventually I um he became a pretty good woodw worker make furniture and uh he was doing quite well when uh the Ohio River flood of 1884 washed the almost the whole town away so he and my father got into a skiff and they rode downtown and they drove rode down to the store and they floating

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around the ceiling and that L Grandpa of think the hell with this noise rer no get out here so he moved up to New York Ohio which is in the middle of the state and where there’s no danger of flooding and uh open the furniture store there uh well glyos furniture store and then he opened up a furniture manufacturing Factory and this was in new Ohio F furniture company and uh that did very well and he was really coming along extremely so he turned the factory over to his second oldest son Fred and

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decided to move to Cleveland because newk was apparently falling on him he had money and while he was up there I opened another furniture store and that was a big success and then he and a bunch of other Germans that made some money decided they would open a bank there was nothing more important to a German than owning real estate and so they specialized in making loans the Germans who were buying land or houses or what have you figuring they would never give them up and they were right uh when the

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banks were all closed in 1933 by Roosevelt the bank was so so invested in frozen assets mortgages that you couldn’t get any money from that they closed the bank but over the years every single mortgage was paid off and so I’ve got some pictures of the old Bank in there and uh grandpa just kept growing up and growing up with the kids he had 12 kids uh two of them died in infancy and one of them manured and to show you how um I hospitals in New York and one of the two-year-olds got the well as dangerous as that was they had

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no hospital they had to put him in the barn and my oldest Aunt Annie uh went and lived in the bar and took care of him and the world of C died well she was so motivated by taking care of this little fell that she went into nurses training and was a nurse in World War I and so they all spread out across the country and my Uncle Paul probably did the uh most he was a flyer in World War I in in France and came back and uh got a job at the good your export and he had the most exotic life you have ever seen

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he has lived all over the world on first class first class Steamers from A to B taste weeks and weeks when as you’re filling in for somebody for 6 months to a year uh you have all the country club privileges all the free oh no expense bar and it was a life that inspired me out of all that’s for me so when I was in high school freshman in high school where they what what do you want to do in your life and I I want to go in the export business I want to travel and took forever to do it now the other the IR side of the

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family uh as I say it’s basically lost in history except for uh it goes back to the early 1800s uh my grandfather was born uh in 1846 which was the absolute worst year of the Irish potato family and I often wish that i’ had years of time enough to spend to get the story how did they exist through the potato fam how did they finally get enough money together where they took the two boys and they got on a ship one these coffin ships and came to America but that’s all lost there was one other McMahon that beat them over here and

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that was a redheaded Kate McMahon a very strong minded woman and she decided she was going to go to America no you got a nice life here when you want to go to America all by yourself I’m going I’m going strugle well damn she didn’t go well so when this family came to uh America while they headed out to Chicago and they got there just in time for the Chicago Fire so they picked up and what to do now so they went back to Washington where so many of the other people in the boat had landed and stayed including uh

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two cute young girls that the boys the brothers had met and they went back found the girls I married him and so that was the the even the possibility that Ed McMahon you know the joy boy that gives all the money he may be a distant cousin of mind he knowes everything he said ties in with his father will and really yeah so it probably I’ve wrent him several times and reminded him that I’m a close relative and a little better tip but all I do is send me things to fill out and don’t Supply the snap so I gave

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up your grandmother though uh is that she’s hanging in there yeah but basically that is the story of the two background and here is the picture that I was telling you about earlier it’s a picture of the family in April 25 of 1897 and the names are on the back here as to Who’s involved and what their ages were my grandfather was 45 at the time and he was doing pretty well he has a good looking house you hold yeah so can you show who these people are do you know who they are individually little higher

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J I still recognize your grandfather is the the guy in the center yeah or what was he like oh he was a wonderful man um I couldn’t stand my grandmother she was so bossy he really kicked me this my grandfather was a pusher and he would take me he was basically retired but he’d take me by the hand we’d go to a bakery stop and buy we’d get down to we’d meet some of his own cronies and they’d sit there and play peanuckle and drink beer and oh he just thought the world to me and I adored him and we had a a remarkable old car a

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1914 Maran and there’s some pictures of that in this book it’s a touring car and and uh gas headlights and fortunately a tools kit on the on the side because boy did you need a tool kit uh we made one attempted trip from Cleveland to aan one of my relatives was living down there which should be like a half hour drive it’s about 45 miles the most we never made it B off and punchers only one lane Rose and wood and so we never did get there it barely got packed at Cleveland but grandpa had a a farm outside of Cleveland uh place

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called Settlement Road well all of a sudden uh the city moved in to grandpa’s farm it became West on 30 street but we used to take the old car out there and sit on hay stacks it was a a very close-knit family uh never any friction at all but you can see that was a family that uh just loved each other and uh we would have the uh whole Christmas and Thanksgiving meals they had a huge house and a great big dining room which was used only on Christmas and Thanksgiving and stained glass windows and the big

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table here in the center and the little kids sitting on car tables around her boy what a mob scene and my grandpa had a favorite joke that before getting into the business of getting the work car you know I was 15 years old before there I knew anything would put the neck of a chicken but the the old boy uh when he died oh he and my grandmother died on the same day and neither of them knew that the other one was sick he was in the hospital having an operation she was sick at home and here on August the 23rd

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of I think 23 why both of you can imagine what a surprise that was when they got up to St Peter in the birly gates what are you doing here wow how long were they married then oh well over 50 years really wow and grandpa had done very well when he died he had 10 children living and he had a state of $250,000 I’d like somebody to figure out what 250,000 bucks Us in 1923 would be in money today but here was a 15-year-old kid had an ACD like this all of his life could chop an ax and I a gly he really came to America and nobody

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else in the family has ever done anything like grandpa I guarantee you that wow yeah yeah all and um I don’t know what my grandfather uh did for a living and when he first got here or how but there was a story from one of my cousins that grandpa had uh own own a bar on Constitution Avenue close to the capital and more legislation was passed than the the saloon go past the halls of Congress and he was very well off he owned a lot of property but for some reason or another b m I guess that he blew it and he retired as a as a quite a

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poor man but my uncle John uh became a lawyer and then became a judge appointed by president Wilson and he was appointed by let’s see there would be Wilson there would be uh Harding there would be coolage there would be Hoover there would be uh let’s see oh U FDR and Truman so his ter would come up periodically they would report so he died so they all reappointed him yeah M wow yeah and he was uh about 69 when he died and he’ been on the bench for over 30 years and a remarkable man uh he had me sitting in the court with

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him one day and I really learned about dignity and integrity um he was listening to One case and I can still remember there was old colored guy that bought a radio and somebody had repossessed it and so this was a case of the man once titled for for the repres and my uncle said that uh has this radio ever been sold before uh yes how many times has it been sold before uh five five or six times uh the full price was gotten every time for that uh yes motion denied you keep the make the last payment and it’s yours from the old

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color books but that’s the type of justice that he Meed out and oh he was beloved by the court reporters because they could always count on something in judge Max’s court that was going to be a little out of the ordinary he didn’t put up with an eight nonsense there was some guy arrested for uh disorderly conduct for U playing football on the street on Christmas Day and I said who won things Happ and every lawyer in town if their client was guilty they were trying and get him before judge back because I knew

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he was going to get a break and so uh and his favorite sport was of all things reading detective stories W and uh he would not take a present of any kind uh on St Patrick’s Day where he would get boxes of cigars boovs candy this that you thing everything went back with a note of thanks including candy sent to my aunt and on grounds that I would be getting none of these things if it were not for my position and when nobody’s going to buy me for a box of cigars of that I don’t want to have any contamination

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here of being more supportive of somebody than somebody else so that he ethics oh my God and that was a thing I brought into government with me and I sure find that that ain’t true but uh he was he was just a wonderful man he’s had probably more influence on my life than just about anybody uh my Uncle Paul The Aviator the export the world traveler again he turned me off into that field yeah so um well what happened to judge mmah then well he finally died he had a stroke and died what what city was he in a big what

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city was he in in Washington in yeah yeah when did you get to spend time with him oh we’d be visiting here very very frequently really yeah yeah I was down here I was down here in Washington during uh World War I and my grandfather walked me down the street but I can still remember Washington those days was a very slow City red brick sidewalks Treeline streets open air street cars no such thing as I can and it was a it was really a southern operation nobody ever hastened anywhere but uh then I came

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back during the war and watched go from that to what it is today a real mad house I had one uncle that was the head of the Furniture Factory that was a real sport and he made a lot of money so he was driving around in a Pierce Arrow oh God the big swinger and his biggest customer was Ser as robu so he would go to Chicago swing well he brought back some sweet young thing he up there would had been tricky and she was not the best choice his wife had died he had a 5-year-old son and his stepmother came

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in and without Fred knowing anything about she used to just beat the hell out of the kid oh boy as soon as Fred heard of it out she went and he this was the first divorce that ever happened to the family he kicked her tail right out but that that no everybody’s been solid citizens except somebody that I know or you corre you I’m named after my grandfather Justin okay and Justin has basically run through the family for hundreds of years Grandpa did bring he went to ger only went back once and found that boy

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he want to know part of that Country police state you so he brought one of his younger brothers back with him uh chap name of France Joseph and he settled into work and apparently during that big flood I have some newspapers that talk about what a wonderful help J Joseph black off was to people in being affected by the FL but then there a little item in there that Joseph gof has left Newark uh IR to go to Alabama to see search for employment I don’t know what ever happened nobody heard from again yeah so

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what nationality are you technically and then I’m really not sure what nationality we are I mean there’s a mix but I don’t know what exactly the components are well I would be just German Irish German Irish 5050 okay and then how many components are there for us when you take into account uh you know your components grandma’s and then the Davis side yeah that you know about well there would well your grandmother would be on the Mexican side possibly some ties to uh the Spanish element and uh uh I really don’t know about the much

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about father MH okay except that it was English generation what do you what do you know about the family during the Civil War uh neither none of them were here none of them were here yeah uh the Irish side came in in 1866 and the German G in about 1864 and here here he was just 15 years old so but no none of them were involved in the Civil War yeah how about World War I a big how about World War I uh well the only one that served was my uncle who became an aviator oh that’s right yeah where did

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he serve where did he serve in France yeah there pictures of him and pictures of who you know by plane was with the 99 Squadron and I got the a couple of EXC excellent pictures here here was my Uncle Paul handsome guy in France picture here was my brother Paul handsome guy in England both Pilots known as O’Brian sons of Brian this ma were grandson of May who was Brian Buu’s brother so that’s way that happened and one of the a lot of the Maxs went with the Irish Brigade and went to Europe after uh they were licked by wi

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of orange and this is McMahon he was became president of France he was a top General and then he uh was made president and he gave up the job saying it’s impossible to govern these damn friends but what what an estate he had wow yeah that was his yeah what part of France is that isn’t that going to be upside down TV when you watching it oh now here he is this is a picture of him and here’s a picture of my grandfather and by God they look like twins yeah they do one of Napoleon the third’s was celebrated officers

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yeah he was all for restoring the Monarch in France and basically a bunch of uh well Communists marxists took took over so they didn’t take to kind of that and here was my uncle’s my grandfather’s well here’s a letter you wrote me in 1921 congratulating me on my Scholastic ability what’s which went rapidly downhill after the eth grade what can you read that yeah my dear grandson I received your very welcome letter I was very much pleased to learn that you were getting along so fine in your studies why your

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percentage lacks only a quarter point of being perfect my grandparents oh Grandpa wants to give you a few words of advice there is nothing as conducive to success as a first class education with that you can I don’t know what you can do and these are some of the things I about wrote about the the old family castle and here’s this uh Castle just down on the Shannon River and we all visited tried to climb in there but I know called so we settled for the local hold and it’s the McMahon Castle now this was

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modernized in 16003 somebody put a fireplace on the sixth floor downstairs there’s all guns and you know stories and they that the family quars are up here so they finally put a heating plant in up there and this is just some shots taking and this is tber where the great grand parents were married but can you imagine get married in a hedge wow oh and here’s the judge okay yeah here’s my mother that’s your mother uhhuh that’s the map of Ireland there just take a look at that where was this picture taken oh

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that was taken at my grandpa’s house and Clay I think she knocked the fence down [Laughter] nobody did answer her so here’s the story about the judge back and oh this is quite interesting if anybody ever want to read it and there oh yeah he even got written up on the New York Times yeah well Municipal Court Judge Washington’s oldest judges in St first appointed by President Wilson in 197 and here’s a just handwritten notes family notes of one of my aunts made for my mother and this is a the cousin that

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told me about Grandpa owning the the saloon Tom says I’m a stupid as I what Tom says I’m as stupid as I feel more old Rec now this is a g Cod of ir oh think iris is up there that’s okay and I’ve often tried to figure out this I didn’t know whether we were a bunch of chicken or whether we’re just playing chicken I don’t know what the hell that means yeah here’s this little it’s right smack on the swis border just a mile and Napoleon got tired of the quibbling about where our border is to be so he

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drew a line and it went right through my family’s properties half of them were in Switzerland half were in Germany and unfortunately we could have been Swiss rather than Germans W if it hadn’t been for the way that log would dra yeah here’s the old boy that’s your grandpa uhhuh our great great grandpa Grand and she was a tough old bitty God she ruled me with an hour and a half not that I needed it and then here’s these stories about fire this is their marriage license I guess about 1876 state of Ohio County

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of boy that’s elaborate that’s about as big as a bed sheet really oh it’s folding up and this is a sensus thing here was Grandpa here was his oldest daughter and then was my father by that time he haded on a new sheet but these are the things that from IR 1883 on your birthday what’s this May 31st 1883 our German friends Messengers cenger J GL off Etc departed to the world last Saturday via the CNO Road and the north German line of Steamers they they what they’re all from New York no they call from New York on the 30th

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in the steam of wey going direct to Paris there they remain a short time seeing the sites and then we and then visit their German homes returning a small the sale hog four sale four New York from Brenan party expect to be gone 3 months HC burn company sold them R return tickets oh this is the boy that he brought back with him and that just fell off the face of the Earth yeah and there Grandpa’s original Furniture Store St I also manufactur Furniture when which enables me to sell lower than any other

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house in the city give me a call I say that the Furniture Factory he had was was real good we had some uh dining room set that was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen walmut and oh that’s perfectly done but the depression knocked him out yeah s robok was our biggest customer in s robok just about closed out all ordering and that knocked them right out of our business andang oh he he was a car he was a convivial soul but look at the fancy writing in those days wasn’t that beautiful yeah that was my dad when he

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was small when he was a student ofio State he was in the first class of architecture in Ohio State everybody wor suits B wor all the time yeah it was like 100° oh yeah oh absolutely oh this is the girl that was a good musician but a lot of [Music] financer grandma don’t look at be like at that wow and this is the one that took care of the baby until he died and became a nurse want and this is there’s another Justin now this is my B he was he was a good looking guy I must been a very dashy occation at the time that’s my

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dad and I couldn’t find a a finer man than he he really taught me integrity and that’s you huh and that’s you yeah yeah Grand settling lamps oh my now why did you wear that long coat well I don’t know that was the fashion though I just had nothing to do with the car nothing to do with the car look at the longevity he really yeah long like Bunch yeah this aunt was I don’t know 92 I guess when she jeez out she was the last now it’s me how did you get all of these pictures and marage Li it took forever

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um Lee had some stuff from when they closed up the family house mhm and she was kind enough to turn a lot of these things over to me but uh it’s been just putting a piece here and a piece there and well this was at yeah the the double funeral yeah oh yeah and look at the size of that family in 1939 good night I’m not in there I was in North Carolina or South Carolina at the time was this a surprise to everybody oh yeah je now these are the the Germans this this guy is Justin he was the mayor of

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Fon and the burgo Meister and I saw his grave over there got a picture of it because I thought well this is a preview of things to come Bingo oh yeah this is Paul and I um and the two boys that went over there been two or 3 weeks just driving all around and uh finally found Fon first trip we didn’t even find [Laughter] it oh this Tower this is Village Church and this Tower used to be a Roman uh post and that used to be an observation post so you can imagine 900 years yeah H it’s beautiful little rolling Countryside and

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uh oh let’s see oh there’s there’s Justin right there God he’s got a better setup than I’ll ever have but there’s one all the family compost pile 300 years old this is where grandpa was born and there’s a compost pile over here that I’ll bet you can smell it from here you know Germany you know they quarter the livestock in the same houses oh really yeah they have separate quarters for yeah and so you have Theos boy oh that rent smar there with Ohio Countryside how how that you know could be Ohio yeah yeah

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totally yeah it’s right on the edge of the black forest and this is when they were having their 900 invit celebration they invited me over this old guy he was about 85 years old when I was there still smoking cigars still riding the tractor still drinking slops still singing in the coral group oh what a character and he gave me a couple bottles of snobs to bring back with me and I’m telling you they were something and these are letters of passing out family information is other members of the family one

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thing and this by go this goes back in Latin 1789 what is that um some church records if they’re in German I have no idea what it is that’s when Geor and this that must have been quite a binge before you forget crutches [Laughter] wheelchair that’s you that’s J black you better J yeah yes on standby that’s great what year was this oh let’s see that oh that must have been 10 10 years or more ago yeah that’s funny yeah that is good oh these are some shots of that French Villa wow that Marquee oh yeah I’ll tell you this he didn’t need

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to worry much about his income wow well hey we’re taking up an awful lot of time on the old folks here what about me should we take a break to get a drink yeah let’s have a beer yeah beer Bri yeah I’m told you about his buying a Christmas tree oh no Christmas what you want he had to go from 85th Street no Lots around there and he kept going went down to 25th Street finally found a tree so he had to load it onto a street car and tail end of a street car was open to the elements he couldn’t bring it inside so he had to

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stand out the cold with the tree hanging out and by the time he got off one he looked like an icicle I’ll say that he want to save money so by buying it at the last minute he never waited till Christmas Eve again to this is the El yeah oh and my dad was an architect in Columbus and he got ponia and just about died and while he had been quite successful build a number of buildings and churches why he had to give up his practice and moved to Cleveland for a year or so to recuperate and then he got settled in

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Cleveland and finally wound up as a superintendent building construction superintendent of a new idea in orphanages instead of a big building they had 25 huge um oh separate separate houses where they boarded up to 25 kids and this was to keep kids separate but they had more personal attention wonderful campus and oh was this lovely place for Mar je well then he after that he uh when the Cleveland Union Terminal got started well he got hitched in that and he was assistant to the building superintendent

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there and uh this thing was a complex of 15 different buildings a department store a hotel a a downtown Rapid Transit Center and the it was a railroad terminal so 52 stories high and at that time it was the largest building uh west of New York and Har he was up there walking on G to go out and find out checking specifications making sure that everything was done you couldn’t got me inside the building L on outside and it’s a beautiful building right in downtown Cleveland it’s it’s legendary in Cleveland that’s sort like

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the Maryland National Bank in btim more but much more so it’s huge it’s got the the the the skyscraper part in the top and then two large sort of rectangular sections that come out of the bottom it’s a beautiful impressive building uh classically designed and legendary in the city and they light it up every inch of it is lit up at night still it’s beautiful yeah that was a Oh that was a real advancement in those days Cleveland was a very important city it was the fifth city of the country as far as

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population was concerned it was a center of heavy industry steel mills and so and so the steel mills I would belch all this smoke and soot and prevailing winds being from the West we moved to the West all this crap would get up the here and go east and drive oh it was it was awful but now all the steel mills are gone and that Flats area where all the industry was is now a big Recreation MH and oh theyve really had a Renaissance one of the things I used to enjoy we were kid we lived fairly close

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to the lake and you could hear the mournful bleed of the fog ARS on these foggy nights you know and here were these long orbs they’re 600 ft long I don’t know how many thousands of tons of iron or they care but they had to Comm in and then they had to twist their way up that River in saying and it was something to behold the way they work their way out now there’s only one or boat left and that is a museum all the sh’s gone all the iron or boats gone but I um went to um public school for a couple years

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because um it was closer than anything else we lived on 85th Street and the school was at 100th Street even so I had to walk that distance but one of the Thrills of my life was going to school one day I passed the saloon you always have pass Saloon those days and I looked down and my god there was a bright shiny dime heaven so I picked it up and I took it to school with me and then I oh this is wonderful wonderful I oh no my mother told me you can never keep money that doesn’t belong to you and you must try

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and find the owner I went to the teacher and I you know Miss some here I gave her this story and she was very much impressed she said I think we should go see the principal about this it’s pretty important so she took me to the principal’s office and I told the story and the principal said Gee this is really is a problem I tell you what we will wait for two days to see whether the owner to claim the D and if not it’s yours oh for the next two days I [Music] I and needles and they gave me the time

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finally and I have never been happier about kep money Peak so he went straight to this balloon no drinking age bag and then I was going to go to St roses which is a pure Irish school and I you know have but my brother got scet fever and so I had to go live with my grandparents and go to a German school and I was way down and I would trudge out of school and walk all the way out to where we lived and look in the window and here was this big sign on the door Scarlet paper quarantine and I’d cry and my mother in

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the window and she’d cry and my brother cried and then I turn around head back and walk all the way back so well then I got it but I had a lighter case and it wasn’t bad for me at all because I was a history lover even then and I had hundreds of soldiers LED soldiers of various sometime marching some laying down some running and so I had nine them up and had battles and I had several books of my grandfathers on the Civil War Illustrated histor Civil War so I had them and I would reconstruct battles

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and that’s what made me such a complete nut about the Civil War started even then but this Irish school was funny you talk about no man being an island here I was they like like Al being surrounded a sea of Murphy’s M or tools hands Bo and uh so we had I had approve myself with several fights you know make sure that they finally got the message well half an Irishman is better than no [Laughter] Irish after I got out of all those days though I think I probably told you some of these things but uh one day I was

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practicing whistling with my desk up I’d never been able to blow a blast from a whistle and so I had a desk up and I thought well I’ll just try a couple of toots here and you know I expect it to be I went out a blast that rattled the [Laughter] window surprised yourself yeah another time I I like to read and so I had a book by PG wouse now in the eth grade can you imagine I don’t know how I got that L and so I had that Des up and I all this is great stuff this nun comes around from the rear R all

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what was it like in those days as far as the other students were concerned was there a lot of fighting was it was it totally was it was it very very strict and you didn’t dare it was it was very strict indeed but uh uh one time we were in line to go out to um recess and uh somebody talked no talking so the are what immediately thought it was me which it usually was I didn’t see her coming and she gave me a push and I fell and bump my head on a desk and I got mad you know if I deser it I wouldn’t

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but I didn’t do it this time so I went out in the recess and I walked around I went back in sat down I the hell is this and I got up and walked down Justin where you going I’m going home come back here and sit down in this minute I’m on my way home I went home told the folks said I’m not going back to that school well oh we took we had a long talk they went and talked to the principal and I was back and that teacher never touched me but you know some of those old [Laughter] broads edting but uh basically I um I I love perok

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schools because they really taught you you know they drilled you in the basics and when you got out of eighth grade of a public Catholic School while you were damn well trained so um I uh I never objected to him that was all through the end of high school yeah no oh no I I went to we dad built several houses in Lakewood and we moved into one of them so I went lakeood high school and this is a big school 3,000 students uh very influent and uh we lived in the wrong side of the tracks it was brand new property it was

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just opening up but it was oh God that new jar area here along Lake Avenue Edgewater Drive Cleveland Club down here why these kids were driving their cars to school even them they would put dancers and get National bands and pay them $5,000 for a shot for one night wow this was an affluent school so needless to say I didn’t fit in and I I was a complete nerd I as far as my curiculum was conern I was boor step algebra geometry trig chemistry physics anything scientific F I did well in uh anything

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having to do with English Lit history writing I was so um I was also editor of the paper and the the four teachers thought I was I was so well you I’m recommending for the National Honor Society well didn’t take long to find out that I was supporting 66 and 23% of the class would come over with these grades on these scientific things and my father an architect looks oh justtin if there’s one thing I don’t need to worry about it’s you over being an engineer you’re going to have to make your living with

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your mouth so who are some of your friends during high school well uh they had all sorts of polies and fraternities and of course in high school they hadat huh oh yeah oh fancy these are the ones to put on these dances where they pay an arra 5,000 bucks Jes but um uh I finally found a good bunch of kids who were you know modest income over and so we um of all things uh began making a little Club of her own and it developed into a bridge club and so every week we go to each somebody else’s house and two

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tables of bridge and boy this made a brid shark on of me for a while and but it was it was nice um but but I was completely non-comp wi as far as any accomplishments in high school and so one day in my senior year the principal called and I was told to be part to the principal’s office but no I haven’t done anything so I walked in there and have a seat uh Justin where have you been I said not I’ve been here well I me look your grades you’ve been here all these years and I now I have the college aptitude test

51:33
which everybody was taking that you know and he says you have the highest score of the senior class it is 95% better than better than 95% of freshmen in college where have you been well I was oh I was doing I had odd jobs I made a pot full of money odd job caring all I did all thing anything and so that kept me pretty well occupied without being worried about the uh social side of life so you graduated from high school in what 1930 1930 and then uh is where to go so I told Dad I think I’d like to

52:14
go to the University of Alabama Alabama yeah yeah and I thought Alabama was on the Atlantic o to say d squash that and we finally got you set up at another day and with all these ODS and I had over 1100 bucks in cash in my bank account and that was enough to take care of my first year at another day not worri about theity yeah room board and uh so I went out there and well I as I say I’ve been a nerd school not D too small for football too small for basketball too slow for track we Club said I couldn’t sing so what do I

53:09
do I decided that well I I’ll go out for freshman athletic bager and this was 1930 Brock had won the National Championship in 29 here three and U so I pick up helmets and carry water and do a on and I would sit on the sidelines during the games and I’d be visiting team assistant time boy it was really an experience and I’d get in the locker rooms in the halftime and listen to Rocket some of his patented grasping voice oh he can put the hide off a goat at 10 ft oh so it was really wonderful with all this going on and I’d

53:58
been such a d night I wasn’t interested all of a sudden I go hell this is college you think they’re they’re teaching stuff here and and I got interested and I became an a student and uh so uh this was this was a big surprise and when I finished off my when I finished off my year as a an athletic manager and survived and got my numerals 193 for oh that was a proud moment if I had a chest in I would have puffed it [Music] out well I’ll say this for Notre name it gave me self-confidence that I never had

54:42
in high school I was a total but boy when I by the time I got through a I was not only cocky I had Cockiness to rent oh God but the uh I guess you all know my story of going through the dance with the Japanese ball team that oh well uh as a manager where they had deputies baseball team from Jose University command played two games and they stayed at a hotel downtown and I was assigned to get down pick them up bring them out to the field play we have any help and then take them back down and there were about 15 of them and only

55:24
one of them could speak any Engish English he was a Japanese and from Hawaii the all the rest of them Absolute no suchil CH so we’d start off to go downtown and we get on the tunerville trolley as we call it we get down the and you know and I said no all right everybody stick together here we you got to get to the hotel and we get to a corner and I’d count noses yeah three missing now you fell stay here and I’ll go get go get I rounded up the street with that nose plastered against Windows get back war war get

56:03
that it was something to behold well uh that particular day perod Paul Whitman in his orchestra were coming to town to play at the pet Royal dance hall and bab R and Paul whitean were the US they were National Saints as far as I Japanese are concerned and so this George meashi ask away oh God ago I don’t have permission I’m supposed to be back in dorm well well okay somebody else signed me I took and it was this big band the crowds and they really dancing and they stood there all they were him and Paul

57:03
White and I was stand there having a good time and all of a sudden there was like I looked around boy there was a long arm in a Roman collar it was the prefect of discipline and he was a killer oh now what are you doing here it was it off Lima place you could get expelled for being here not there’s anything wrong with it but it just H we got to get up at 6:00 in the morning go to mass at night there was supposed to be prayers at 6:30 1 10:00 permission a week 1 10:00 a month 12:00 a month yeah wow so here I was boy dring

57:48
in the wrong place at the wrong time so I explained well in the interest of Japanese American relations and trying to you know promote International Goodwill and how they love Paul Whitman and Dave Ruth and I just thought that this would be a nice gesture that they would carry with them forever as they went back across the ocean oh god oh he just throws me like I be in my office tomorrow morning at 8:30 oh yes I God what a night I had so I went in there the next morning 8:30 and he reamed me do you realize that another name has

58:32
rules and regulations yes Father uh do you realize that you are not authorized to change [Music] them oh and he went oh Bo and I had to agree that yes I really wasn’t in position to do what I wanted to do another name well all right you’re campus for the rest two weeks and I was expecting he would say you’re going to be out of South B in 24 hours because when he threw you out they gave you 24 hours to clear out of town or the cops had picked you up and I was like oh police force I I’ll I’ll let you

59:12
pick me up because I can’t go home oh Bo so te down inside that son of a God he did have a sense of you different subject who was your when was your first date my very first date very first date oh it was probably my senior year because I was a case of Arrested Development senior year of high school yeah and that was another it was a senior PR and I finally was able to persuade my dad to let me drive the car take this sweet young thing to the senior your prom and so we got the prom and it was dull and I couldn’t dance with the dam

01:00:05
any get home the and it had been raining and freezing and I am driving my 1925 Nash and turning the corner and and and there was a they used to go disc wheels and it looked like a w [Music] well Dad what so there was one final dance and I wanted to take a real sweet young thing so I got my mother please let D to relance let me have the com okay so we go to dance it wasn’t all that great so we were coming home and we stopped at you know a restaurant for a hot dog and uh the street was curving and there were Street D tracks along

01:01:21
with the street and it was a rainy night and I heard a hell of a flag oh my God ran outside somebody had come along slipped and tore practically the whole side of my father’s [Music] 1925 so the garage all it fall down I got call down in the garage anybody hurt no all right so come on home that was all I heard of that he he was getting better as that time went by because when I came home from Notre Dame one time they bu a new road from lak three lane concrete Highway out and see how fast this thing

01:02:13
go toling down the road oh about 50 m hour maybe all of a sudden I hear this go a racket it sounded like a donkey engine I throwing a rod oh well talk her father how happen fool I want to see how fast going blah blah he says well at least you told the truth never heard anything more about that really yeah he was a longsuffering man because my brother got back from World War II he was a boy he was a good every Drinker those days by this time dad had a new Dodge the Dodge on coming home about 5:00 one Sunday

01:03:15
morning he made a a sharp turn between two trees and somebody’s front yard the trees were too close together for a car to get through there w and then he ran into a front porch Ste house and that blew we used to call him the golden steps wow so my father was shaving and well I I wrecked a car I thought you would that was it but he gave Paul the refrigerator treatment for a while and Paul decided he better get out of town he came out to California to stay with Joseph A to be out there Los Angeles and that’s where

01:04:19
he met Lee again so and that’s get of old Bri but oh my father Hest gu I don’t know how he was able to put up all these things how was Paul after the war I mean he had some pretty intense experiences and how did that oh he was pretty much a nerv wck yeah yeah he was the first replacement p7 pilot uh in this bomb group um everybody there’s only one plane left it all been shot down no fighter escorts going on and so he moved in there and in those days why the big problem was uh flying tight formation

01:05:02
because the German look M would particularly look either for stragglers or for ships that weren’t tied in and had a good field of fire so uh he happened to be a uh damn good formation fire his flight engineer came to visit us one time and gave us a story about good but uh uh as a second Lieutenant he was flying the lead plane on a squadron wow yeah because people would get killed and his papers got filed up he never got promoted the first lieutenant C and so he was a deputy a squadron leader and this Squadron leader

01:05:46
got shot on his best friend uh we coming back and they were all pretty well shot up but this guy was slow getting slower as long and the Germans were just waiting to come in and uh this guy I think delivered they pulled out of the formation went down and wave gave a signals he lowered his uh Wheels couple times and one of the Paul’s crew said what’s he doing is he going down to surrender he said oh no that’s a signal for Paul to take over and but this guy uh looked up and Paul’s quot saying well take your last look at

01:06:25
Henri that’s they’ll never see him again and his best friend and he was all choked up wow yeah what was it like during the uh the late 30s and very early 40s when all of the stuff was brewing and you saw and then America got involved what was what was that like as a as a citizen here well uh it wasn’t it wasn’t difficult you know the war broke out actually in 39 right and so the way everything was going first it looked like a phony War was called that because nothing was going on Germany had moved in and grabbed a hell

01:07:03
lot of stuff and wasn’t really doing much but uh uh then it began speeding up again by uh the contracts coming in the United States that got us started in ship building it got us started in Airplane building and tanks and everything it was a great head star course and uh I I could see the war coming on and at that time I was tire sales when out here in Harrison P Virginia I get into Washington once a while so uh I always wanted to go to the Navy so I went into the Office of Naval recruitment down here one day and said

01:07:38
you know like to apply for a commission well uh cheu me out they said well let’s see he got a statistical background uh so they gave me some stuff to be a correspondence course in cryptography and I took it home and oh God it was so boring and the thought of spending the rest of a war which was I knew was coming looking at ciphers of five digits of numbers and letters startu me being incredibly boring and I said no I want to be a death officer so I went through the physical and busted yeah heart mmer

01:08:22
high blood pressure and uh so that was that that was in April of 41 and then Pearl Harbor I was at home and the word came over the radio by Pearl Harvard and wow that just hit us all like a really solar PL so I had to go back to aen and at the end of the week I came back and they were recruiting Navy was recruiting at the uh arm guard the the Armory there so I went down there and said you know I had file papers and norick and they turned me down because of X and uh could you give me a check as far as my heart and the blood pressure

01:09:04
and all that and if it looks any better or you can give me something that says that I was in here do then I’ll Sprite Nori and try and reactivate my papers and this guy bright young guy with stripes that were so bright they almost blinded you probably the first time you’d ever put a uniform on well if I examined you I’d have to examle every stumble that came in off the street wow oh I was you well first of all I’m not a stumble bu and second I probably had papers in for the Navy before you did and stormed out but U no lu and and

01:09:43
then I I was with good and Commercial research and opa then wanted my boss to come down and they were setting up regulations for tires and tubes and all sorts of Rubber products and they wanted him to come down as a technical advisor he said no I don’t want to go but I got a young fellow here very well qualified had production experience Lama so all right I got sent down there was in Opa for oh a couple of months and we started off with 13 people and we’re around almost Around the Clock putting these things the only

01:10:20
other member of the staff was a gasoline station owner that also knew the tires were around and so we were the only ones that have any idea about what a tire was or what it was made of and so we uh finally beat out preliminary uh regulation and then the college professor began foror again everybody that was there was out bringing in his friends from xyu and all and they all came in and they sit around in the canteen and discussed elastic at inas competition and the mandalian theory and it was oh it was awful and I couldn’t

01:11:03
stand so but this time I met your grandmother and she knew people over at BW more of economic Warfare and uh so I got in touch with somebody over there and they picked me up right away when I walked into the place we the office was a former apartment building brand new never been occupied and my office was one bedroom and I opened the closet door and there was a stack of paper almost up to the ceiling here were expert license applications been sent in and the guy was a good Department of Commerce man

01:11:45
and if you do something you might make a mistake so don’t do anything for God and so he all these things are in there and there may be two or three repeat applications same whatever happened well uh I got that stuff on the way because I did have this excellent business and again I began think well there’s a war going on and so I I’m try something else here so I went up to Pentagon I got in touch with motor transport and I said you know I’ve got a good background and tires I’ve had production experience and I was also a

01:12:22
service uh representative that adjuster you know any it go wrong with me and wow were they glad to see me because uh all these uh Southern rout lend Le shipments were going into the Persian Gulf and the ports were nothing and the roads were nothing nothing but potholes and rocks and the trucks were overloaded and the heat was 135° during the day and and they were popping tires were supposed to be going across land into Russia uh within 10 or 15 miles so I look good to them and over to waline hospital and okay I want over

01:13:04
there those I weighed about 130 lb soaking went my suit on so I told the guy said you know can you pump that scam up listen man and so he he got me up from about 130 to 142 or something like that and uh long comes the captain he says let’s take a look at it wait take to look at me look at this says uh Sergeant have you had this scale calibrated lately said uh no well I suggest that you walk over about a mile away to another building wave yourself on that scale and then come back here and weigh yourself on this scale to make sure that

01:13:52
this the calibration this oh brother poor guy he trying to help me I bust it out again same damn thing heart Mur blood pressure wow that’s for I of try yeah but then we had a change they brought in a new guy as head of the rubber division and he was a former goodar man and he had gotten into trouble in some kind of Mexico so they shipped him off to Washington and told him you better take care of by the old school and Jesus that guy was a crook uh in addition to tires they were issuing equipment to retread tires for all use

01:14:47
all over the world and so boy he was giv a good year of stuff he came to me one day and said here have something application down sure here more Tire ret TR clients for getting here I said no I have nothing to do with this they’re your baby you sign them say you never got a raise but a few months later when the draft came along and this guy calls me out and said you know I can get your draft DET when the hell should I have a draft reement for and Bo I hat he said black I know you think I’m a son of a

01:15:29
I didn’t say a word I just smile oh so I busted the draft so what happened after see after you graduated college I went to work for good well I had two jobs this was rather interesting uh the Depression was so bad there were 30,000 30 million people out of work so you graduated in 34 34 and the Depression started in 29 it started actually in 30 and kept getting worse okay and so 32 and three was probably the worst and then 34 was still bad it didn’t actually end until um the war started and all these War orders came in

01:16:18
and that really got into she going but uh here i’ not been a jock you know and uh i’ come here from do dame they got girls on this campus they got dances they got from and so I really was having a ball but they they had a message there if you retain the B average well you could have unlimited Cuts B average well all right so I hung on to a b average and said I was not a brain I was not a child I was not I was just a guy out enjoying it and so when time came to started looking for a job I I checked out an interview with BR and

01:17:07
gamble come both p and Gamble and goodar offered me jobs and I was the only guy that had two jobs offer at that time and pror gamble uh wanted me to go into soap sales down in Kentucky where my girlfriend lived but I thought no if I go to good here I may be able to get an expert bad chance because my uncle was there and there was one such thing as nepotism I didn’t realize so I got in this Factory training course I called a flying Squadron and they picked up top light college graduates and brought them in and you were supposed to

01:17:43
spend three years being trained in every single Department of factory I have worked from unloading box yards rubber the loading box cars with Penny stares for original equipment from Detroit manufacturing all phes of manufacturing well uh I guess I’ve never been a very good team player because uh they gave us a bunch of hog wash oh you know good good good well one day the Squadron leader came in before a group we Thomas and he says man I want to tell you that if Paul W litfield president of company that

01:18:25
came in here today and said we you’re through I was still L my voice from the earth says well nobody scream about me this my reaction to [Laughter] the so that was right after college so you were like 2 yeah yeah and my first week’s pay was $13 look at that a college graduate leader of men yeah and I out of the $13 I paid $8 for room and board $8 a week huh $8 a week yeah that was but we were working a short week and then I take the bus back to Cleveland cuz I couldn’t afford a car having wrecked finally wrecked completely and

01:19:22
finally the old 1925 man [Music] what was a what was a good you were apparently somebody that had a lot of fun in college oh yes what did that mean in those what were the what did you do for fun yeah how did you get into trouble oh it well we us a go outside and drink some boot like beer mhm and and but how did you get a hold of that stuff oh one of my friends had a car and we would drive a few miles into another town and there are other ways of fellas have found their way there and so there’d be

01:19:57
a nice group but there was no real serious problems I mean no nasty stuff at all it it was just fun right okay how did you get into the fraternity and thaten uh well my roommate went that way and uh I was recommended for it but in those days the fraternities would not take Catholics and I think I was probably the first Catholic that was ever pled by the B and uh so I went in there and I got my pin and all that kind of crap but I they used to ride hell out of me for uh betas were only supposed to be

01:20:47
pal other Bas and uh you’re supposed to go with either side tried out with the S uh dou build campas because they were our sister hell I spent more time with the GDI not Hall at the Sig house on the street the my and at every fraternity meeting they would raise out be for not spending enough time in the fraternity house and uh I just thought I spend my time with whom I wish and when I wish and nobody tells me who I should be friends with I like a rebel did they uh did they have fun with you during when while you were pledging

01:21:36
did they Haze you oh well yeah Haze week was this was full week of hill we TR like what oh well they I they paddle the hell out of you for one thing but um all sorts of crazy things like carrying eggs in your pocket and people always bumping up against you and one of sign was they have bring in rat a rat okay Chuck and I were over I long well Chuck said I’m taking psychology studying white white rats over there so we snuck over and grabbed a couple of white rats and we took them into the fraternity house and my God for

01:22:29
hell week there were our white friends and so we took him back in the room and we let him stay there overnight and the next morning while a m came in so went screamed her BL off and the house mother came up and said either you or the rats get out of here right now so we took the rats and we took them back back to the landb that night and unfortunately we dropped them white rats look basically the same as other white grats and we dropped him in the wrong case and we really screwed up the mandalian theory and all the hell was

01:23:13
raised about that we had disrupted a scientific exercise but need us to say neither of us volunteered and one of the other ideas uh go out and count all the the bricks and uh Street oh no yeah okay so I went out and I got a square yard and I counted the bricks in a square yard then I walked down got the L the street total number of square feet square and I figure it out how many I got back there in record time where the hell are you you want to know this is it and did they know the answer and were

01:23:59
you right well they oh they didn’t have any answer at all they that I was pull the smart one on and they did use to P at hell out of it and I I told him to J that I never went for that either and you know a bunch of guys crawling around the floor help me Swinging beat the and it wasn’t until years later that I had a letter from fell name of Tim Hansel who was the curator of the George Marshall Museum down here in Virginia Stan Virginia and he reminded me that I had been his PL master and he had always

01:24:39
remembered me because I had no use at all for p i this you know and he always thought that boy that he didn’t know how I I do it because everybody else was wailing away and we had one pledge that Pass Out Boy you had to be taken to the hospital you some sort of you know different heart attack or shock and oh I just H that’s that’s Beal to beat somebody up when they don’t have a chance well the uh the Harrison the the tire plant in Harrisonburg is that where it was uh no way well that was where I

01:25:18
was in on a um that was my headquarters town for when I had a wholesale territory was that okay so where was the factory in aan in aan and how was that in the summer awful and it was even worse in the winter because you’d get black snow snow like hell and it was all black really yeah by the time it came through the atmosphere and landed on my car by dingo there really yeah I finally had a car here it was I thought be covered in black Ohio get pretty Ohio is kind of like here isn’t it is in the summer it’s

01:25:55
really hot and muggy on occasion it’s really hot not as bad really I mean cuz there good there wasn’t any air conditioning in the factory right yeah and I mean were you wearing a suit in there oh no we wear clothes you know word clothes sweaters sweaters every and goet here one of the jobs was to put tires in a a pit you put them in a mold and down into a pit and you turn steam in there 370° of steam and they’d be in there for maybe an hour or two and then you’d have to take a cow and crack the thing well

01:26:32
with me still about 135 lbs uh I bounc so I some of these big Factory workers would come in and break it for me then you’d lean over and there was this steam coming up you had your gauntlets up here and You’ have to go in there un fast in the companies and and ran with look this at the end of we had to drink all oatmeal water because uh salt or anything else wouldn’t possibly work so you drank gallons of oatmeal water and that kept you from passing out but you go in the locker room in the morning and here are the clothes that

01:27:10
you had on yesterday still as soggy and wet and clammy and [Music] miserable yeah that must have just been help I mean nobody had air conditioning at all when was the first time you even experienced air conditioning Bo that’s uh I really can’t recall but it was well after the war yeah I mean the air conditioning had been heard of but nobody had done anything about it either before the war or during the war so it had to be well after the war what were some of the inventions that are just common place nowadays that

01:27:49
you are most impressive most excited about oh television television yeah mhm and that gave in in the 40s and um your mother we lived in this little and didn’t have a television set and so she would want to go around and see the neighbors and watch howy Duty and things like that so um your grandmother got mad at me if I wait on you wa the came home with a 12in television set oh great so we plug it in turn it on on wait wait wait and then all of a sudden a white horizontal line appears across the St well it must about to do

01:28:37
something now nothing happened and so this gave me a RAR mod of CH you will Rush half so I took the set back and and somebody had failed to connect a few wires so we got another one that worked and that was our introduction television and those days I wouldn’t stay up I here I hit the bed before 10:00 was but then I’d stay up till 11 to 12:00 and watch all these late shows oh great stuff there was a statu bl by name of Dagmar about 645 and build accordingly oh every night it was a treat to see dag what about the

01:29:42
telephone oh they they had been in M for a long time and uh I did have a peculiar experience with it t in those days you had operators and you know big telephone this operator would you get me this number oh I got one in a lovely voice oh we began Shing well see sound great oh you sound great too well made a made a date piure my God she was Miss ugly 1935 a and so I took her to a place that I thought well boy I’m safe here nobody will ever know damn there weren’t three of my fraternity so I guess that was the first

01:30:49
and last date that was yes that ended our love affair right so let’s see where are we you let’s see so after BF Goodridge or after the rubber clant tire factory what was after that uh I went to uh well I went to commercial research uh and uh I was sent around from Pillar To Post this we were making surveys of test results of programs in little towns in big towns mediumsized towns this and so I would spend four to six weeks in various towns get these tests and um that was great because U this was all in

01:31:40
Ohio and so I would get my Miami University yearbook bring it with me and I hit a tel who’s who’s in the book Z whatever and so I was always able to get established pretty well and it was always nice to be out of there fast too so how long did that did that last it lasted about 6 months and then I got transferred to North Carolina as a an assistant Tire adjuster in Charlotte and so how old were you here uh let’s see I was about 26 and uh here Deep South Bo I mean Deep South and here you got a guy with a name

01:32:33
like bov unpronouncable unspell name a Catholic a tire just a yany and what are the standard Expressions down there was which I learned the first week hell I was I was 29 years old before I knew Jam Yankee wasn’t one word oh the didn’t have a car broke oh it was it was something and I was Oh I thought this is awful turned out in retrospect I look back and happiest period of my life had more fun now in north of South Carolina in Virginia I finally was made the director of both well three states North Carolina

01:33:17
South Carolina Virginia and the claims were a total of about $10 million a year and I was drawing $ a month I mean who could ask for anything [Music] more she did that for 3 years yeah that was 26 to 29 no this was getting into 39 now no no ag ag oh oh yeah yeah 2 and then I uh well I got pulled back and then sent him to um Baltimore for about 3 or four months go had a a big new distributor set in here and they were giving them all sorts of support so needless to say they sent one of their most important

01:34:03
Executives do they have a warm body represented the company but I had a wonderful time in Baltimore where did you stay huh where did you stay uh I’m close to we J in loyol over who’s what St Paul Street this way and then there’s a street this and then I was on little side street and there was a nice little bar out the corner and I spent a lot of time what was Baltimore liking that thing it was a uh tooling up for war and uh the row out here towards betham steel was full of hot spots and I mean hot

01:34:48
spots and so some friends and I go out there and meet some sweet thinking why home then you find out that they’re going on their husbands are working the night shift oh hell no wow yeah yeah I Bo as soon as I found I was kind up with a married woman I ran for the hills no part of that do you remember when you first this sort of Opp remember when you first heard the song um J gret no that you did yeah no no but all I had to do was get to Paris and I immediately started buying everything I could find of

01:35:39
her so then you were in Baltimore until uh actually um until just before in Pearl Harbor I’d only been home a couple of weeks when that broke out where were you working at the time in commercial research in P okay still for good or was this this was good okay okay so then you you worked for goodd through the war no no then you work for the BW yeah BW yeah op very shortly until I can bail out of that squirrel what was the op huh what was the PA office of price Administration and they control rationing and prices and uh I’ll never

01:36:31
forget one letter we had addressed to the head of opa uh Dear Mr Henderson I have a son who is strong of heart but weak of intellect and I’m sure that he would make an invaluable addition as an executive on your [Music] staff there were some glorious moments and everybody held the outfit in about as low repute go it would have cost miserable operation I would have lost my mind if I had to stay there then the BW so wait where were you when the war ended uh just oh well this is another uh be know at the very closing stage of the

01:37:25
war lend leas has been handed by a l lease Administration so here it was finally turned over to bew phasing out because the war is just about through sorry what was BW Board of economic War right it worked two ways it was a uh an outfit that would brought a preclusive buying of raw materials and stuff so the AC didn’t get them and then we had distribute vitally needed products to our allies and so Lind Le was a shoveler given to me and uh one day a an oror came in from the Soviet purchasing Mission it was absolutely

01:38:11
unbelievable hundreds of thousands of tires tubes all all Transportation stuff and God it was a and uh there wasn’t that much really to go around because that up was PR sure F so um uh I couldn’t okay it i s ah smart but you know would you send us more details regarding the necessity wow boy the Russians came right back to the White House look at that and so we got AR in the White House give the Russians anything they wanted anything oh incidentally i’ gone over the Pentagon with this thing and hey look at this

01:38:59
what givs this I can’t believe it and they couldn’t either and they said what they’re doing is building a postar stock pile and this they’re just ordering this it was it was so fabulous that nobody could really believe that and here they didn’t need it now this was a very closing days and uh so well when I got the word that that yeah we were supposed to do this at me think for the rest I looked around I de I’m going to quit I won’t put up R and so uh we finally got hitch on with the La Chamber of Commerce

01:39:34
and the World Trade Department that’s how that got started so that was what like 46 yeah that would they uh yeah that would be 40 46 yeah 46 so in the meantime you had met Grandma yeah oh yeah we were married but then yeah so did you know a fast Romance was it yeah oh yeah how fast oh god oh just a very few months I don’t know I questioned My Sanity on how yeah what what was the situation there huh where you met her in Baltimore oh no I met her in Washington uh how old were you when you met her oh 30 and I

01:40:21
took a bunch of the guys that lived at this boing house on to dinner one night and came back and parked the car and in those days my eyesight was better and my Mobility was a hell of lot better and I looked up on the porch and I saw something new and it looked very very good so I beat everybody up there uttered the faithful words my name’s glov what’s yours so then how about your first date with her my first day for that night we got that car and drove out to Silver Spring which was then a nice place and we went

01:41:07
to one of these you know barbecue stand hot dog stands something like that and uh then from then on I we would dat quite off and before long i’ been having a hell lot of fun in Washington and then all of a sudden the fun stopped for the next 50 years no so when how old was she when you met her uh oh sensibly 25 it’s funny she still is so then how long were you dating and like when did you meet your parents after oh no I never met anybody really no no but uh I would say probably four months and you popped the question yeah where

01:41:56
was that we were coming back my concert and a FR train was blocking the trash and as I watched all these romantic bcars go [Music] by you romantic fool and so how much later did did you get married after that oh uh I’m very sure I would say a couple months or so really yeah and what did her family feel about the situation oh her mother asked a very pertinent question what do you want to get married for because she had to we by the tail she had a good job and yeah so and she told Lee at one time she said

01:42:53
you you know um uh Jay was such a nice guy that I couldn’t let him go I had several other flattering offers that I should have taken where did you where was your wedding in Arlington at a little church over there I’ve never been able to find it since maybe somebody blew it up it was January 29 1943 a blizzard the Washington post pictures and the headline stay off the streets I didn’t get the message and this was an evening wedding so I was driving to the church and then I didn’t plow into a snow bank and get

01:43:44
stalled you are quite a driver oh this was boor Y and so uh I slogged my way for a couple of blocks to the and we went through all the happy formalities and then at the end everybody you know go back to an apartment two two other Fells and I had an apartment I had a reception there so everybody got in their cars I borrowed a shovel from one and I went back and show my car here’s a wedding car this damn snow you doing your sh yeah was grandma with you while you were shoveling oh H she’s not that dumb no she was a

01:44:32
safely shaeer the the Imon was in the walf histor of New York and uh in those days New York was pretty much of a deserted City and we had this absolutely magnificent room at the wal it looks like it can play basketball in there $7.50 you like them potatoes W yeah so what did you how long were you there for un uh about a week I ran out of money in a hurry because I didn’t have any to start with and she used up said she wanted to stay a while okay I’ll stay but I don’t have the money so what did you do while you were

01:45:14
in New York oh uh some friends of ours were there and uh uh we got together with them and went to a couple of nightclubs and went to a show or so and you know it was just basically uh what tourists do yeah AR Radio City Center and all those things M oh New York was fascinating in those days what during the war yeah you it was empty yeah did you ride on the Subways back then oh well not not well I probably did but my experience in Subway was after I put in my first year at Notre Dame and my father was so proud of the fact that

01:45:59
I actually got through one year in one year with greed that he said well all right we’ll treat you all little go to New York and so the last minute but he couldn’t go but mother and Paul and I went and we got off at the Grand Central Station and we had bookings at the hotel Lincoln and so got cab stter and H oh oh the linc’s book I mean it’s full but there’s another hotel hotel St they have plenty of rooms it’s great wait a minute now you’re I 18 years old I can’t get to a phone called and think you know you certainly we have

01:46:41
your reservations all right went back so uh I had some friends from there that lived in Long Island and visited them but one day I decided to go to Cony Island and just to see it and so I went by Subway and coming back why it was a hot day and uh I was seated next to a young woman and a baby oh what a cute child the baby took one look at me and go [Music] [Laughter] talk about is oh wow so how about then uh skipping ahead a little bit you got married to Grandma in 1943 uhhuh and uh mom came along in

01:47:43
1945 44 44 okay and uh what what was that like for you huh what was that like for you oh wow that was a thrill um oh I really because uh your grandmother and I have been having some talk about chilling and she had no more interest in chilling she had two nephews that was good enough and that was good enough really and I made a remark about well yeah you love children as long as somebody else has them for yeah but then all things comes Mother’s Day and she had been doing everything possible to keep

01:48:20
from being a mother so Mother’s Day and she got mad because I didn’t give her Mother’s Day present what in the hell you’ve been doing everything at God’s world to keep being a mother and what are you prob about come I didn’t give your Mother’s Day present so then uh obviously May 7th of 1944 yeah came along what was that like what were the circumstances oh she was absolutely beautiful uh this one picture I have of her is my favorite and this is my favorite picture of your mother oh she was a do um

01:49:26
all [Music] right Annie I can always [Music] tell wow that’s quite a concoction you gave you there yeah oh yeah yeah I tried to liveen it up so that instead of being this deadly stuff frankly that your your mother gives her dog it’s probably healthier you got have some flun out of [Music] life if any pictur us you know there’s something wrong with the old man cheers salute salute cheers and to you Annie cheers thanks what did you call it Brett Grandpa lies in videotape El Paso I began doing a little

01:50:36
freelance writing travel articles historical pieces one thing another and one day a fellow approached me and said why don’t you write something about the national Naval armed guard and I said well I’d like to but I don’t know anything about him so he uh dug up the chap that had some basic knowlege and I wrote an article for American Legion magazine called unsung heroes because the naval armed guard were not ever recognized as being even part of the Navy people thought they were guards just walked around buildings and so um

01:51:07
when this article came out in American Legion the response was so terrific that American Legion said they never had anything quite like it and at that time the armed guard membership was less than a th000 it is now 14,500 something it just built up since then and this is a service that has performed absolutely wonderful heroic uh service on Merchant ships and radiomen signalmen and uh on the worst kind of rust buckets and they casually rate was terrific and uh so uh they really appreciate that and I had more fun i’ crisscross

01:51:52
the country going armed guard reunions and having interviews and maintaining correspondence and so this took me 5 years to put together but I enjoyed it every minute so that came out in uh 1990 and it went for a second printing yeah third printing third printing uhhuh EXC and then some of the stuff on this side here I think you’ll have to come in here well up at the top is a plaque I got for being uh chief of the Miami Field office in my uh for about 12 years and I was also head of a Cuban Refugee

01:52:48
interrogation Center known as the Carib Caribbean admission Center and uh we discovered the first uh confirmed offensive missile in Cuba everybody had been denying that they were offensive they were all defensive purposes but we had two reports that confirmed by a U2 flight proved that the Soviets introduced uh offensive missiles in Cuba and they gave me that uh uh award there and underneath is that’s a general Carter he’s making the award of that to me this is one of my bosses uh this is Dick Helms he was former head of the

01:53:27
agency this is Alan Dulles he was also former head of the agency this one down here says see I sneak in and that’s a cartoon by one of my staffers who is this uh gentleman seated at the desk again the gentleman at the desk seated at the desk seated at the desk yeah oh yes that is is a a former division chief of mine one of the best men I ever knew and that’s my fraternity 50-year plaque and this is the lone sailor uh Navy monument in Washington and I have that statue on my desk over here who did that Grandpa huh

01:54:15
who did this right here well I was seated at a bar in the Dominican Republic and I didn’t even know it was being done and so when I finally got up where this guy approaches this seor you know you you interested yeah oh what the hell so I gave him 10 bucks for that but it was just amazing how good was and how fast he was um were you in the agency at that time or was that yeah what were you doing to the Dominican oh the the Dominicans were having a revolution and Fel can was sponsored problem and so we had a bunch

01:54:52
of people over there we grabbed all the brass hats that might be assassinated uh pulled them out put them on a boat and took them to Puerto Rico and provided safekeeping for them for quite a while it looks like he he really captured you look very serious in that oh always [Music] going to Primary School I passed by this Saloon where I on the time and this picture was in the window and I would stand there and look at kuster and oh my well I wrote an article on the seventh Cavalry which is headquartered in El

01:55:44
Paso and they had a fire which had burned down one of their big pictures so I wrote Budweiser and would be nice if they made a replacement copy so they not only did at the seventh Cavalry meeting but they sent me several copies of this and it’s just the idea quiet type of art that you enjoy having in your [Music] house yeah this is a man of cod of arms and and looking at that I can see these lions and looking back over the and I thought what these are the Cowardly Lions you’re looking to see who’s

01:56:30
catching up with them and this is the what the thing means winds up with we guard ourselves in the faith made that and gave it to me and I boy it’s quite a guy one of the most important bable defectors that come most bu do I can’t stand them what’s that well I got them in Guatemala those are the most important gods of the Maya Indian okay so the guy’s name was F laurance from Czechoslovakia is that that’s the signature on this painting yeah no this is I don’t I think it’s a just a block print of Miami but he was we got him

01:57:37
down there and enrolled and in the School of Art in Miami [Music] University I there’s a che political Refugee really yeah oh yeah so you got them pay passports and driver’s license and all that stuff how do how do there’s that secret stuff how do you how do you get those documents oh you you just ask for them five [Laughter] time yeah you know what I wanted to do you have a bunch of your letters to the editor that you’ve written oh over the oh some nasty ones oh god there some nasty ones I looked at them the other

01:58:20
day oh did you get some really good ones I’d love to have you read them you know I know they’re all pretty short know if you yeah love to have you read some of those out those are all oh God I don’t know boy you’re going to destroy my happy disposition yeah oh God when I get steam I really impress [Music] myself yeah there’s a there’s a rock band that just made a video YouTube just made video and it’s based in like Miami it’s just like the 50s 60s it’s based in Miami at that time this is very this is

01:59:01
very hip right now that’s a really neat book yeah oh yeah very nice yeah yeah that and my little FL there there they go I was Hing after them finish it huh oh for I am their leader I’m going to have to find one [Music] you I used to get a a real raring from this was a hell of a good office it was it was poking fun on each other oh it was this great we got along so trying to find this one cartoon oh my god well here’s a cartoon you like [Laughter] what that Dre great yeah we’re just uh we’re about to

02:00:43
head down to the restaurant so we’re just waiting for asylums and he cleaned out his jails and he told me get on the boat and all these people that were waiting for their families to come and get on the boats that they come on all of a sudden found they had a boatload of criminals right and they were forced to take off with the criminals and boy they were scared to death and these guys when they got to the United States they started a crime crime wave that went across Nationwide they were vicious now the mer elal

02:01:13
they’re well known and by every law enforcement officer in the united St okay well she’s here [Music] so have some kids of our own um when haly gets a little bit older you know I want to show this to her and um and kind of think of her as an audience for this thing and uh I was going to ask you if when uh over the course of the next you know 50 years over our lifetimes how do you think that’ll be different from yours oh my the world is going there will be no resemblance whatsoever uh I grew up in

02:02:10
basically very sheld time uh family life was very important there was no problems at all with Law and Order cops were walking the streets and they knew everybody and everybody knew them and they had complete control over their pring uh life was I would say life was sweet and nowadays it’s a night so I I’m not looking forward to what you’re going to have to go through in the next 50 years what do you think some of the biggest challenges will be well I think that we’re going to have trouble from within from government from

02:02:53
our own standards we’re going to fall apart like Jake uh crumbled from within like the Roman Empire did took 500 years for Roman Empire to fall apart and that was basically from within rather than aggression and uh I just have a feeling that our we’ve seen the best of I have seen the best of America I doubt very much whether you are going to see h l impr our sense of Valu in those days was so much more sound than it is today everything is temporary it’s what do you get how can I get it how fast can I get

02:03:36
it and uh sense of morality and basically ethic standards have gone to hell yeah is there any uh any device that you would offer to to Kaye or Haley or any other kids you have no the future is so uncertain but or you would be asking for a real crystal ball to try and figure out anything what’s going to happen next however I don’t think it’s going to be a whe of an improvement we may be talking about interplanetary stuff but uh uh that’s still a long range before anything actually Happ we going to spend a lot of money

02:04:26
practicing I I don’t think you’ll expect any really concrete results the comicman they sending a few missions but the missions we do send should be robots rather than man if you had the option to choose whether you were born the year you were born or born the year we were born I’ll take the year I no question about it it was a completely different life families were the most important thing and it was the closest of families and of course in those days you had family plots you know people that come to

02:05:10
their end or they would be put in with all the rest of their relatives in the same time now God stand it all over the place and well there isn’t that sense of family community that be why do you think that is oh it’s a completely different world uh we have gotten so mobile that instead of you know being confined Regional area and a small area like God we can get in a car and our plane and go to the end of the world H so there’s no relationship between the general tener of life in those days came

02:05:48
out on a slly different note um I was wondering what’s what was the best thing about being married to Joe well that’s an interesting thing uh I mentioned that my uh Uncle John taught me ethics and my Uncle Paul gave me a view of an exciting world that I really wanted and had very little chance of getting and of all things uh Maring Joseph meanwhile it had many disadvantages uh she did switch me from the national to the international track and I have fully capitalized on it all so I I have to give her CR a she she

02:06:30
turned to switch which has turned out to be one of the most important absolutely yeah yeah change of life what was the best aspect of the relationship between you [Music] two well we daned for well together she was this dancer yeah and it was always a pleasure dancer to the point where I S wanted to dance with anybody else so that was probably our our best moment together what about how was having a daughter with Down Syndrome infected oh that wow oh that uh that ruined their lives there’s no question about it I changed them

02:07:21
completely just I’ll give you one I didn’t think that that uh we could go over there under those certain circumstances I would not be able to do the job properly with the it was hysterical and with the circumstances we’ have to help I was worried about the medical facilities but it was just that what I was being hired for was to be a very prominent social figure and I didn’t see how you did didn’t want to talk about it though with Justa he didn’t want to even bring it up I just that was it pick up your mind

02:08:01
qu oh good before you start that that has always been uh the most disappointing say I believe in my group any group well with Terry what uh I I know I’ve got very specific feelings about kids with Down and they’re all good feelings and they’re all they all bring me happiness and make me smile I guess that’s because Terry has been in our lives what do you think is the most positive thing about Terry oh such a genuine uh sweetness of character she would be an absolute Jewel if she had been given more

02:08:43
freedom she would have develop the personality it would be really fun and uh so she would be a lot better off than she is today I worry about what’s going to happen to her when her mother’s gone and when I’m gone I’ll take her feel around but oh it’s it’s a wor do you feel that the when people children adults with Down Syndrome smile and I I just have my thoughts are that when there’s nothing as big as a smile for somebody with Down Syndrome oh yes so genuine in that’s right they’re so full of love

02:09:23
oh God how they respond to affection you so oh this is and they they seem to be almost happier than able people well I’m sure that I’m sure that’s true in many respects yeah because what they don’t know they don’t grieve about don’t have the same problems to contend with that we do how about our mom would have been uh the best parts about having her and and your relationship with her who you I’m saying our mom oh well your mother’s always been a Jew I I just love I was as much of a Nutty father as you are oh yeah

02:10:12
yeah oh my God and so she’s always been the joy of my life we had all more fun when she was a kid I tell her bedtime stories goofy stores and she I’d look in the bathroom oh nury she’s down the drain she’s oh she’s gone forever and she oh my Lord we used to have some of the funniest little jokes and uh it was an awful blow to her to find out that she was no longer alone you know how did you how old was Terry when you found out she had Down syndrome oh within a weekin a week yeah that that had a a real impact on

02:11:05
Grandma oh yes well both she and her mother refused to believe the diagnosis of this is natural and so they went around and running around from one doctor to another you know hoping for a miracle some reason somebody to say oh yes this is no it isn’t what you think it it is what you all and it was and she has always accused me of trying to place Terry in a you know po well our doctor uh had recommended that uh she didn’t have much of a chance of doing that anyway and he knew of a home for retired children in too and I left

02:11:52
suggested I going to take a look at it well I went out there and it was a perfectly fun perfectly clean wonderfully organized they took care of these little babies but I looked at oh no I I just can’t never think of party but your mother has always acced me a pling to in institution I I have a question about uh being a being know one of a of a set of brothers and I was wondering if if you had a chance to talk to Paul again just for a few minutes what would you want to say to him oh well it be a case of ab

02:12:37
brasos you know real H God Mexican abaso and then the next thing would be uh let’s that means PS right let’s have a trick yeah and then we would settle down to reviewing all the time we were not only Brothers but we were the best of friends I would trust him with anything at any time and he was a marvelous man way of a sense go he made you laugh oh God oh God he was telling me one time he was a good Martini man I need just to so he’ fix himself martinis had come home and the kids I would watching have his and

02:13:22
so finally his older son who then I guess about 8 or 10 said dad let me get that taste of that and Paul said oh no oh please this let me just a little taste well all right might as well show you the fact so we let him take a taste of the martini and this kid spit it out oh that’s awful and so my brother said and you thought I’ve been having fun all these years that’s the kind of a guy he [Music] was what uh if you had to pick three possessions physical possessions non monetary possessions that where your

02:14:10
most valuable possession what would they be well one of them would have to be a selection of the music I wanted and and uh second would be a opportunity to continue traveling you know that has been the love of my life and third uh I don’t know I I’ve noticed two go a long way uh a chance to pursue that’s again been my favorite subject place to go his I’ve read interesting hist events people that would do it I my watch have always been very s I’ve never wanted to be president of a corporation never had any ambition to

02:15:03
you know exceed or brown nose or run over anybody I always figured go along let me enjoy it what I’m doing see how like life will take care of itself got what uh what would you say are the three happiest moments of your life m one would be my first night in hono that’s one of the immedately flips of the M let’s see oh I suppose another one would be uh uh planting my P my college swe yard that was a a real yeah and the he that was her name I allow so many nice things that I really you know it’s difficult to sort

02:16:15
them out I there’s what was that what was that well uh I got off the plane registered the Mandarin Hotel what year was it oh this would be about 1982 and it was my first trip and rest of the maner in oh I couldn’t I couldn’t wait to get out water so I walked down to the harbor which is only on the island there and so I walked out to Harbor I saw some Jun you know they look like oh Fair Vol or something like and they had signs on them and I oh that must be interesting and it like one was about to

02:16:52
shove off I dashed over to a vendor and bought a couple PLS of beer got on board the no idea where it was going I just stood there on the deck and looked at the harbor and all har was in [Music] him well there some other question that makes you think how about three role models for you I’ll big paron three of your either heroes or Role Models most important figures well when I was a kid I had you know some of the uh old old Antiquity Heroes uh parishes at the bridge and leonitis at theropo and oh I was raised on stuff

02:17:39
like sir Roland perfect night oh I I really went for that stuff uh in Modern Life I would say my number one hero would be Harry trumman I I absolutely regard him with the highest esteem I think he was the best president of the 20th century and uh oh let’s see I’ll have to think about somebody else but Harry Truman comes through there right off the bat why was he the best president when you’re respecting him some he had more guts and taking over after Roosevelt died Roosevelt had not told him a thing he didn’t know

02:18:20
anything about what was going on in the government let alone the atomic energy or anything else and Roosevelt had been taken to the cleaners by the Soviets he thought he could charm Stalin out of the freeze on the trees and he bypassed Church H who knew what he was doing and so uh Here Comes Harry Truman out of nowhere Missouri no education no nothing but he knew the difference between right and wrong and he could tell when the Russians were hey I don’t care what they say they are wrong they are liars they are cheats

02:18:56
they are are aggressors and he took steps all the way along the line to block him and by godl he [Music] did what was the uh what was the scariest moment of your life I’m not sure uh I think the absolute scariest moment of my life was when I beat a railroad train across a track with a few inches to spare this was on an icy Road there curves you couldn’t see anything coming and here was this train rounding the p and coming right down on me and I just thought I was going to breathe my last but I gave my old Dodge at the full

02:19:45
treatment and got but that oh God that was like CL was going I think that I think that from SC where’s you just changing back the subject to one of the questions Jay asked before said it would be difficult to for family you know the communication and people being spread apart makes it difficult for families to sort of keep together versus the old days what advice would you give these three brothers on keeping it real and keeping it together well it’s going to be difficult because you know you’re scattered and uh but

02:20:21
by all means hang in there stay Clos I’ll never know how much each other means to him and uh it’s only when you lose them like when I lost my brother but boy that hit me like and the strange part of B was here I was going from Miami to El Paso and I was going to plan on staying with Paul Paul was 5 years younger than I perfect health never been in a hospital as life I don’t think and I was driving along and I was in Houston filled up with gas pulling out in the morning and I thought you know you think

02:21:04
that you’re coming out here to spend the rest of your life of Cl uh but if he goes before you and I have no idea what caus a premonition like that but oh boy this uh brain cancer R hit him like he on of works and he was gone in a hurry what year was that that was 1982 how about um as two of us are and one of us is probably going to become soon fathers what advice would you give to us as fathers take full advantage of it enjoy these little ones while they are little and boy give them a lot of love I don’t

02:21:51
care whether they spoil them or not give them a lot of love my early days with Pat or such I’d pick her up and dance with her and oh my God how she used to enjoy it i’ my sponsor CU bouncing around oh laugh kids grow up so fast but boy enjoy them on you can those are the most precious memories I have with haly dancing oh how about faith what role is Faith played for you oh a very important role I’ve been in so much trouble over the years that uh I could have fallen apart completely and lost hope things were so

02:22:38
bad and uh the fact that I have had the faith and held the faith uh has gotten me through some awful difficult courage has it been difficult at times to hold the faith not particularly although I have blown my top at certain things that I think are wrong and have not hesitated to say so but the basically why uh uh I feel that I would be betrayed my ancestors on both sides you know hundreds of years back I mean this name Lov come goes back to the Reformation and uh so I uh I can never change to anything else

02:23:24
I think one time you and I talked about Dr Koran oh yeah what do you think about him oh hell I’d like to [Music] hire all right that is not [Music] fun but you you have beliefs about the hog Society yeah yeah but I’m in well I’m in full agreement with the assisted suicide I mean we have things like the society for prevention of troling to animals we are kinder to animals than we are to human beings I don’t give a hoot what the church or anybody else has that that we should live and go through whatever and accept it

02:24:20
[Music] think okay let’s take a [Music] look you talked about uh America well the United States potentially crumbling like the Roman Empire how how in your estimation how long do you think that’ll take and how does that manifest itself and how do you see basically the world evolving politically well uh as I said the took the Roman Empire by 100 years to gradually unravel uh with the speed with which we do things now it won’t take us that [Music] long do you think there’ll everever be another War of the magnitude of the wars

02:25:05
we’ve seen before another war of what another global war oh I would say probably sometime in our Li it’s been it’s been historical you know it’s been humankind to go to bang somebody go the head [Music] are there any words of advice that people have given you along the way that you remembered and kept in your in your head has been so profound uh I’ve been given lots of advice that I’m not Tak shut [Music] up oh no I can’t remember any specific advice are there any golden Rules by what you live [Music]

02:25:54
I’ll give everybody an even [Music] break don’t try and grab all the marbles not everybody have a share treat them de courtly that has paid off handsomely wherever I’ve gone in the world because I try and learn a few words of such things is good morning uh good afternoon please thank you and even though I don’t anything else with that and with that for a smile boy I’ve gotten along without any trouble anywhere it’s just being uh genuinely uh friendly very projective sense